Malaysia's Military, Police and Security Agencies
Welcome to the battlefield, soldier!

MyMil adalah bod perbincangan berkenaan ketenteraan, agensi2 penguatkuasaan yang ada di Malaysia dan juga di serata dunia. Daftar sekarang untuk menikmati paparan perbincangan berinformasi sambil bersantai. Ahli2 yg baru akan digugurkan daripada senarai sekiranya tidak aktif dalam masa yg terdekat. Berforumlah dengan berhemah.

Terima kasih.


Admin dan moderator MyMil

Important Notice: The views and opinions expressed on the forum or the related pages are of the owner alone, and are not endorsed by Mymil, nor is Mymil responsible for them. Due to the nature of the Internet forum is in real time, Mymil does not, and can not censor any submission, but asks that each user use discretion and respect for other users, and does not contribute any word that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable. Mymil reserve the right to withhold and/or remove any link that might possibly hold an individual, entity or group ridicule, potential embarrassment or potential defamation. Mymil also reserves the right to accept, edit and/or remove any link that is deemed inappropriate in any way.
Log in

I forgot my password

Latest topics
» Sembang Medan Selera Pak Jebat V44
by atreyudevil Sun Feb 05, 2017 6:23 pm

» PAINTBALL - Come get some...
by pisang Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:53 am

» Baru balik
by pisang Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:47 pm

» Jaket camo
by atreyudevil Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:17 am

» Nusantara Total War: Portuguese Invasion
by Adib Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:57 pm

» Rekrut baru disini
by kapokbesi Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:32 am

» Keretapi Tanah Melayu Berhad
by zacky.uesoff Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:00 pm

» ALL ABOUT HAM RADIO (AMATEUR RADIO STATION)
by kapokbesi Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:42 am

» Gathering MyMil 2015
by yaminz Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:15 am

» Diari MYMIL
by edayu Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:08 am

» Hari Polis ke-208
by venez Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:14 pm

» BACKPACKING
by venez Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:11 pm

» Rekrut 2015
by atreyudevil Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:34 pm

» Sejarah Pangkalan-Pangkalan Udara TUDM
by venez Tue Mar 24, 2015 6:02 am

» MyMil useful website lists
by atreyudevil Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:17 pm

» WIP - Work In Progress
by yaminz Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:06 am

» Model Collections
by yaminz Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:58 am

» Rekrut October & November 2014
by atreyudevil Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:07 am

» Bola Cafe: MALAYSIA!
by HangPC2 Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:35 am

» Hot Chick in Uniform
by yaminz Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:52 am

Statistics
We have 510 registered users
The newest registered user is Adib

Our users have posted a total of 171899 messages in 1313 subjects
MyMil at Facebook
Like/Tweet/+1

What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

View previous topic View next topic Go down

What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by venez on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:33 pm



Two years after the Airbus 330 plunged into the Atlantic Ocean, Air France 447's flight-data recorders finally turned up. The revelations from the pilot transcript paint a surprising picture of chaos in the cockpit, and confusion between the pilots that led to the crash.

The plane has climbed to 2512 feet above its initial altitude, and though it is still ascending at a dangerously high rate, it is flying within its acceptable envelope. But for reasons unknown, Bonin once again increases his back pressure on the stick, raising the nose of the plane and bleeding off speed. Again, the stall alarm begins to sound.

Still, the pilots continue to ignore it, and the reason may be that they believe it is impossible for them to stall the airplane. It's not an entirely unreasonable idea: The Airbus is a fly-by-wire plane; the control inputs are not fed directly to the control surfaces, but to a computer, which then in turn commands actuators that move the ailerons, rudder, elevator, and flaps. The vast majority of the time, the computer operates within what's known as normal law, which means that the computer will not enact any control movements that would cause the plane to leave its flight envelope. "You can't stall the airplane in normal law," says Godfrey Camilleri, a flight instructor who teaches Airbus 330 systems to US Airways pilots.

But once the computer lost its airspeed data, it disconnected the autopilot and switched from normal law to "alternate law," a regime with far fewer restrictions on what a pilot can do. "Once you're in alternate law, you can stall the airplane," Camilleri says.

It's quite possible that Bonin had never flown an airplane in alternate law, or understood its lack of restrictions. According to Camilleri, not one of US Airway's 17 Airbus 330s has ever been in alternate law. Therefore, Bonin may have assumed that the stall warning was spurious because he didn't realize that the plane could remove its own restrictions against stalling and, indeed, had done so.

02:10:55 (Robert) Putain!
Damn it!

Another of the pitot tubes begins to function once more. The cockpit's avionics are now all functioning normally. The flight crew has all the information that they need to fly safely, and all the systems are fully functional. The problems that occur from this point forward are entirely due to human error.

02:11:03 (Bonin) Je suis en TOGA, hein?
I'm in TOGA, huh?

Bonin's statement here offers a crucial window onto his reasoning. TOGA is an acronym for Take Off, Go Around. When a plane is taking off or aborting a landing—"going around"—it must gain both speed and altitude as efficiently as possible. At this critical phase of flight, pilots are trained to increase engine speed to the TOGA level and raise the nose to a certain pitch angle.

Clearly, here Bonin is trying to achieve the same effect: He wants to increase speed and to climb away from danger. But he is not at sea level; he is in the far thinner air of 37,500 feet. The engines generate less thrust here, and the wings generate less lift. Raising the nose to a certain angle of pitch does not result in the same angle of climb, but far less. Indeed, it can—and will—result in a descent.

While Bonin's behavior is irrational, it is not inexplicable. Intense psychological stress tends to shut down the part of the brain responsible for innovative, creative thought. Instead, we tend to revert to the familiar and the well-rehearsed. Though pilots are required to practice hand-flying their aircraft during all phases of flight as part of recurrent training, in their daily routine they do most of their hand-flying at low altitude—while taking off, landing, and maneuvering. It's not surprising, then, that amid the frightening disorientation of the thunderstorm, Bonin reverted to flying the plane as if it had been close to the ground, even though this response was totally ill-suited to the situation.

02:11:06 (Robert) Putain, il vient ou il vient pas?
Damn it, is he coming or not?

The plane now reaches its maximum altitude. With engines at full power, the nose pitched upward at an angle of 18 degrees, it moves horizontally for an instant and then begins to sink back toward the ocean.

02:11:21 (Robert) On a pourtant les moteurs! Qu'est-ce qui se passe bordel? Je ne comprends pas ce que se passe.
We still have the engines! What the hell is happening? I don't understand what's happening.

Unlike the control yokes of a Boeing jetliner, the side sticks on an Airbus are "asynchronous"—that is, they move independently. "If the person in the right seat is pulling back on the joystick, the person in the left seat doesn't feel it," says Dr. David Esser, a professor of aeronautical science at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. "Their stick doesn't move just because the other one does, unlike the old-fashioned mechanical systems like you find in small planes, where if you turn one, the [other] one turns the same way." Robert has no idea that, despite their conversation about descending, Bonin has continued to pull back on the side stick.

The men are utterly failing to engage in an important process known as crew resource management, or CRM. They are failing, essentially, to cooperate. It is not clear to either one of them who is responsible for what, and who is doing what. This is a natural result of having two co-pilots flying the plane. "When you have a captain and a first officer in the cockpit, it's clear who's in charge," Nutter explains. "The captain has command authority. He's legally responsible for the safety of the flight. When you put two first officers up front, it changes things. You don't have the sort of traditional discipline imposed on the flight deck when you have a captain."

The vertical speed toward the ocean accelerates. If Bonin were to let go of the controls, the nose would fall and the plane would regain forward speed. But because he is holding the stick all the way back, the nose remains high and the plane has barely enough forward speed for the controls to be effective. As turbulence continues to buffet the plane, it is nearly impossible to keep the wings level.

02:11:32 (Bonin) Putain, j'ai plus le contrôle de l'avion, là! J'ai plus le contrôle de l'avion!
Damn it, I don't have control of the plane, I don't have control of the plane at all!

02:11:37 (Robert) Commandes à gauche!
Left seat taking control!

At last, the more senior of the pilots (and the one who seems to have a somewhat better grasp of the situation) now takes control of the airplane. Unfortunately, he, too, seems unaware of the fact that the plane is now stalled, and pulls back on the stick as well. Although the plane's nose is pitched up, it is descending at a 40-degree angle. The stall warning continues to sound. At any rate, Bonin soon after takes back the controls.

A minute and a half after the crisis began, the captain returns to the cockpit. The stall warning continues to blare.

02:11:43 (Captain) Eh… Qu'est-ce que vous foutez?
What the hell are you doing?

02:11:45 (Bonin) On perd le contrôle de l'avion, là!
We've lost control of the plane!

02:11:47 (Robert) On a totalement perdu le contrôle de l'avion... On comprend rien... On a tout tenté...
We've totally lost control of the plane. We don't understand at all... We've tried everything.

By now the plane has returned to its initial altitude but is falling fast. With its nose pitched 15 degrees up, and a forward speed of 100 knots, it is descending at a rate of 10,000 feet per minute, at an angle of 41.5 degrees. It will maintain this attitude with little variation all the way to the sea. Though the pitot tubes are now fully functional, the forward airspeed is so low—below 60 knots—that the angle-of-attack inputs are no longer accepted as valid, and the stall-warning horn temporarily stops. This may give the pilots the impression that their situation is improving, when in fact it signals just the reverse.

Another of the revelations of Otelli's transcript is that the captain of the flight makes no attempt to physically take control of the airplane. Had Dubois done so, he almost certainly would have understood, as a pilot with many hours flying light airplanes, the insanity of pulling back on the controls while stalled. But instead, he takes a seat behind the other two pilots.

This, experts say, is not so hard to understand. "They were probably experiencing some pretty wild gyrations," Esser says. "In a condition like that, he might not necessarily want to make the situation worse by having one of the crew members actually disengage and stand up. He was probably in a better position to observe and give his commands from the seat behind."

But from his seat, Dubois is unable to infer from the instrument displays in front of him why the plane is behaving as it is. The critical missing piece of information: the fact that someone has been holding the controls all the way back for virtually the entire time. No one has told Dubois, and he hasn't thought to ask.

02:12:14 (Robert) Qu'est-ce que tu en penses? Qu'est-ce que tu en penses? Qu'est-ce qu'il faut faire?
What do you think? What do you think? What should we do?

02:12:15 (Captain) Alors, là, je ne sais pas!
Well, I don't know!

As the stall warning continues to blare, the three pilots discuss the situation with no hint of understanding the nature of their problem. No one mentions the word "stall." As the plane is buffeted by turbulence, the captain urges Bonin to level the wings—advice that does nothing to address their main problem. The men briefly discuss, incredibly, whether they are in fact climbing or descending, before agreeing that they are indeed descending. As the plane approaches 10,000 feet, Robert tries to take back the controls, and pushes forward on the stick, but the plane is in "dual input" mode, and so the system averages his inputs with those of Bonin, who continues to pull back. The nose remains high.

02:13:40 (Robert) Remonte... remonte... remonte... remonte...
Climb... climb... climb... climb...

02:13:40 (Bonin) Mais je suis à fond à cabrer depuis tout à l'heure!
But I've had the stick back the whole time!

At last, Bonin tells the others the crucial fact whose import he has so grievously failed to understand himself.

02:13:42 (Captain) Non, non, non... Ne remonte pas... non, non.
No, no, no... Don't climb... no, no.

02:13:43 (Robert) Alors descends... Alors, donne-moi les commandes... À moi les commandes!
Descend, then... Give me the controls... Give me the controls!

Bonin yields the controls, and Robert finally puts the nose down. The plane begins to regain speed. But it is still descending at a precipitous angle. As they near 2000 feet, the aircraft's sensors detect the fast-approaching surface and trigger a new alarm. There is no time left to build up speed by pushing the plane's nose forward into a dive. At any rate, without warning his colleagues, Bonin once again takes back the controls and pulls his side stick all the way back.

02:14:23 (Robert) Putain, on va taper... C'est pas vrai!
Damn it, we're going to crash... This can't be happening!

02:14:25 (Bonin) Mais qu'est-ce que se passe?
But what's happening?

02:14:27 (Captain) 10 degrès d'assiette...
Ten degrees of pitch...

Exactly 1.4 seconds later, the cockpit voice recorder stops.

___

Today the Air France 447 transcripts yield information that may ensure that no airline pilot will ever again make the same mistakes. From now on, every airline pilot will no doubt think immediately of AF447 the instant a stall-warning alarm sounds at cruise altitude. Airlines around the world will change their training programs to enforce habits that might have saved the doomed airliner: paying closer attention to the weather and to what the planes around you are doing; explicitly clarifying who's in charge when two co-pilots are alone in the cockpit; understanding the parameters of alternate law; and practicing hand-flying the airplane during all phases of flight.

But the crash raises the disturbing possibility that aviation may well long be plagued by a subtler menace, one that ironically springs from the never-ending quest to make flying safer. Over the decades, airliners have been built with increasingly automated flight-control functions. These have the potential to remove a great deal of uncertainty and danger from aviation. But they also remove important information from the attention of the flight crew. While the airplane's avionics track crucial parameters such as location, speed, and heading, the human beings can pay attention to something else. But when trouble suddenly springs up and the computer decides that it can no longer cope—on a dark night, perhaps, in turbulence, far from land—the humans might find themselves with a very incomplete notion of what's going on. They'll wonder: What instruments are reliable, and which can't be trusted? What's the most pressing threat? What's going on? Unfortunately, the vast majority of pilots will have little experience in finding the answers.

Jeff Wise is a contributing editor for Popular Mechanics and the author of Extreme Fear: The Science of Your Mind in Danger. For a daily dose of extreme fear, check out his blog.

Read more: Air France 447 Flight-Data Recorder Transcript - What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447 - Popular Mechanics

--------------------my siggy below--------------------





venez
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 17387
Reputation : 581
Join date : 19/04/2010
Age : 38
Location : AFNG

http://venez2.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by atreyudevil on Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:41 pm

Chain of command jadik serabut!

takde pressure on stick pn jadik hal jugak, tak tau mana satu in control!

--------------------my siggy below--------------------



♫♫ I could lift you up  ♫♫
♫♫ I could show you what you wanna see, And take you where you wanna be ♫♫
♫♫ You could be my luck♫♫
♫♫ Even if the sky is falling down, I know that we'll be safe and sound ♫♫
♫♫ We're safe and sound ♫♫

atreyudevil
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 9565
Reputation : 602
Join date : 18/04/2010
Location : Kuantan

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/profile.php?id=1000002088986

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by kapokbesi on Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:11 pm

phewww...bnd ni pn bolh jdik ke..huhu.. Neutral

kapokbesi
Captain
Captain

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 968
Reputation : 181
Join date : 17/09/2011
Age : 31
Location : ولا تمشى فى الارض مرحا

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by venez on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:51 am

agak2ler kan, airbus dah solve problem nih ke belum yerk?

--------------------my siggy below--------------------





venez
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 17387
Reputation : 581
Join date : 19/04/2010
Age : 38
Location : AFNG

http://venez2.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by venez on Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:54 am

atreyudevil wrote:Chain of command jadik serabut!

takde pressure on stick pn jadik hal jugak, tak tau mana satu in control!

Unlike the control yokes of a Boeing jetliner, the side sticks on an Airbus are "asynchronous" - masa kejadian, sistem just ambik average force dari pilot n co-pilot, walaupun pilot tgh tarik, co-pilot tgh tolak control stick tapi xder effect coz both controler x sync..

--------------------my siggy below--------------------





venez
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 17387
Reputation : 581
Join date : 19/04/2010
Age : 38
Location : AFNG

http://venez2.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by skyline on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:00 am

venez wrote:
atreyudevil wrote:Chain of command jadik serabut!

takde pressure on stick pn jadik hal jugak, tak tau mana satu in control!

Unlike the control yokes of a Boeing jetliner, the side sticks on an Airbus are "asynchronous" - masa kejadian, sistem just ambik average force dari pilot n co-pilot, walaupun pilot tgh tarik, co-pilot tgh tolak control stick tapi xder effect coz both controler x sync..
maknanya abila pilot sebelah kiri buat some changes,pilot sebelah kanan tk dapat input dari komputer apa yg pilot sebelah kiri dah buat

instead dia pi buat opposite pulak,kan?

skyline
Staff Sargent
Staff Sargent

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 261
Reputation : 33
Join date : 12/07/2011
Age : 41
Location : KL

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by zul on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 am

Biasanya dlm flight yg ada dual pilot, bila one pilot taking command of the control stick dia akan cakap 'I have control' dan pilot sebelah akan acknowledge 'You have control' . pilot yang standby tidak sepatutnya memasukkan apa 2 input kat flight control kecuali memegang control dengan relax semata 2 utk stby to take control later ataupun melepaskan controller altogether. Dalam transkrip tu langsung tak ada acknowledgement who is in control.

zul
Civilian

Malaysia
Posts : 8
Reputation : 5
Join date : 13/12/2011
Location : Kuching

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by marc_zman on Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:45 am

zul wrote:Biasanya dlm flight yg ada dual pilot, bila one pilot taking command of the control stick dia akan cakap 'I have control' dan pilot sebelah akan acknowledge 'You have control' . pilot yang standby tidak sepatutnya memasukkan apa 2 input kat flight control kecuali memegang control dengan relax semata 2 utk stby to take control later ataupun melepaskan controller altogether. Dalam transkrip tu langsung tak ada acknowledgement who is in control.

masalah tu timbul coz yg kendalikan pesawat tu pd ketika itu bukan kapten pesawat tapi pembantu dia.. dua2 level sama.. kalu ikut artikel tu, nampak cam diorang sendiri tak tau sapa yg IC sebenarnya?

--------------------my siggy below--------------------

Y.A.I.M.! Y.A.I.M.!! Y.A.I.M.!!!

Lautan luas.. Banjaran gunung.. Rezeki nan melimpah
Bawah langitNya kami bernaung.. Rasa kasih tercurah
Tahan airku bumi bertuah.. Tiada bandingannya
Rela bersatu ganding tenaga.. Mendaulatkan tenaga

Dengan sepenuh keazaman.. Semangatmu nan waja
Keranamu rela berkorban.. Engkaulah pertiwi yang tercinta
Darah Satria.. Darah Satria
Berkobar di dada

Tinggalkan ibu tinggalkan ayah... serta sanak saudara
Membuktikan kesetiaan kita.. Pada bumi Malaysia
Darah Satria.. Darah Satria



marc_zman
MODERATOR
MODERATOR

Malaysia
R.I.P
Posts : 16318
Reputation : 611
Join date : 08/06/2010
Location : di atas tanah bekas hutan, paya dan ladang kelapa sawit.. tak tau laaa ntah sapa2 pernah kena tanam kat sini dulu.. kalu ada laa

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by 5229 on Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:50 pm

mintak pencerahan.nk taw sapa in control dalam cockpit mmg complicated yer tambah2 dalam kes kecemasan macam nih..?nak taw apa prosedur/protokol bila dalam cockpit nih..



p/s : tak pernah masuk cockpit dan takdak kawan pilot nk bertanya..

5229
Captain
Captain

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 761
Reputation : 30
Join date : 29/08/2010
Age : 32
Location : nowhere

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by atreyudevil on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:07 pm

Correct me if I' wrong
biasa kalo ada berlaku sesuatu, Senior pilot akan assume control

dan co pilot akan bukak checklist utk kecemasan.

--------------------my siggy below--------------------



♫♫ I could lift you up  ♫♫
♫♫ I could show you what you wanna see, And take you where you wanna be ♫♫
♫♫ You could be my luck♫♫
♫♫ Even if the sky is falling down, I know that we'll be safe and sound ♫♫
♫♫ We're safe and sound ♫♫

atreyudevil
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 9565
Reputation : 602
Join date : 18/04/2010
Location : Kuantan

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/profile.php?id=1000002088986

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by venez on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:23 pm

atreyudevil wrote:Correct me if I' wrong
biasa kalo ada berlaku sesuatu, Senior pilot akan assume control

dan co pilot akan bukak checklist utk kecemasan.

sepatutnya camtuhler... senior pilot or captain aircraft akan ambik alih control (dia akan akan i hv control), meanwhile co-pilot or junior pilot akan check if anything goes wrong dgn instrument/paparan sambil re-check dgn checklist/manual book...

--------------------my siggy below--------------------





venez
ADMIN
ADMIN

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 17387
Reputation : 581
Join date : 19/04/2010
Age : 38
Location : AFNG

http://venez2.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by powerw00t on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:05 am

BUMP!

Pilot disyaki bersama sorang perempuan

http://news.yahoo.com/air-france-captain-woman-flight-447-trouble-214157897--abc-news-topstories.html

powerw00t
Major General
Major General

Malaysia
Mymil
Posts : 7424
Reputation : 360
Join date : 18/04/2010
Location : Kuala Sg Baru, Melaka

Back to top Go down

Re: What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum